I very much appreciate your exploration of why in the face of every piece of evidence that the animals people eat are abused and murdered under the most horrific conditions, (upwards of 55 billion every year in the US alone, and that's just land animals), AND that they are not too good for our health, that people somehow find rationalizations albeit not legitimate ones for STILL eating animals. (One might want to watch the documentary Seaspiracy to see the devastation the fishing industry has on the world). This is all particularly confusing for me to understand especially in circles where ethics is the main reference for living ones life and we are concerned about issues of quality of life, human/animal rights, health, the environment and our own practice of making ethical decisions. I too am a long time vegan (35 years) so I made that commitment then to not be involved in the exploitation of animals to the greatest extent possible and it wasn't hard to live up to that back then and it certainly has become increasingly easier to be vegan all these years later. Every day we have the opportunity to make ethical choices and actively engage in a way that saves the lives of other beings that want to live as much as we do and improve our health at the same time. But perhaps the bottom line is this - there is no humane way to kill any living being and every living being wants to live out its natural life. Thank you Joe for bringing an important discussion to light.
And thank you, Alan, for your rigorous response and for setting an example for the rest of us. I think an explanation as to why meat-eating endures in the face of animal suffering can be most effectively explained by the phenomenon of massive cultural inertia. Meat eating has gone since the dawn of time, and there is certainly a precedent in nature itself. But cultures are not static, and change over time as a result of dynamics coming from inside the culture and those external to it. Among those influences are the animal rights movement and the commitment of people such as yourself who exemplify an alternative place to go. Perhaps the anti-smoking movement is an example. When I was young smoking was ubiquitous in the culture, But with the emergence of health warning, things slowly began to change, wherein there is social pressure, implicit and explicit, sending a message to smokers that have deterred the practice. Increased public conversation about the abuse of animals, public and political agitation, and messages valorizing alternative ways of eating may all begin to make cultural inroads and change behaviors.
At this point knowing what I know about how these creatures are kept and killed, when I pass the meat counter in a grocery store, all I see is the pain.
Nice article. Another reason to refrain from meat eating in the U.S. is the refusal to participate in the capitalist exploitation and destruction of middle class farmers through unconscionable contracts which force them to take on millions of dollars in debt to maintain their relationship with the meat corps. Eventually this becomes too much for the farmer to keep up with and the corporation buys their farm for pennies on the dollar. The Biden admin has done some to help with this phenomena, but these corporations will never stop. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2BozOmjm1U Of course, I would be surprised to find that other farming industries aren't also participating in this type of exploitation, but I know it is particularly pronounced in the American meat monopolies.
Many thanks, Jean. As stated, it is a difficult issue to discuss in that it inevitably runs the risk of dividing people, But for those who are ethically minded, I think it is something that must be thought about. And such thought can be an initial step toward change. My best to you.
I strongly support your guiding principle for environment ethics. I'd like to add compassion for the suffering and travails of all living things. I am a lacto-ovo vegetarian and I feel an unease about about how about how the cows and hens were treated to feed me. I know something can be done beyond not eating dairy and eggs.
The society-wide disconnect on how we treat the living things we consume is deeply unsettling. You mentioned the NYT's article on hog farming. Why can't we connect with the suffering we cause the animals we farm for our dinner tables? What does our tolerance for the cruelty we inflict on farm animals tell us about our social norms? It is but a few small steps to ignoring the suffering of the income or food insecure. Opening our hearts to suffering of farm animals might open us to suffering of others and the duty of care we can extend beyond our loved ones. Compassionate care for all living things is my inclination and recommendation.
Very well said. I think that widening the circle of compassion is a vital and inspiring aspiration, and I believe is possible for us. We can always do better and speaking for myself, I have pledged to become more diligent in seeking out those conditions in which animals are raised for eggs and dairy to ensure that they are humane ones.
I very much appreciate your exploration of why in the face of every piece of evidence that the animals people eat are abused and murdered under the most horrific conditions, (upwards of 55 billion every year in the US alone, and that's just land animals), AND that they are not too good for our health, that people somehow find rationalizations albeit not legitimate ones for STILL eating animals. (One might want to watch the documentary Seaspiracy to see the devastation the fishing industry has on the world). This is all particularly confusing for me to understand especially in circles where ethics is the main reference for living ones life and we are concerned about issues of quality of life, human/animal rights, health, the environment and our own practice of making ethical decisions. I too am a long time vegan (35 years) so I made that commitment then to not be involved in the exploitation of animals to the greatest extent possible and it wasn't hard to live up to that back then and it certainly has become increasingly easier to be vegan all these years later. Every day we have the opportunity to make ethical choices and actively engage in a way that saves the lives of other beings that want to live as much as we do and improve our health at the same time. But perhaps the bottom line is this - there is no humane way to kill any living being and every living being wants to live out its natural life. Thank you Joe for bringing an important discussion to light.
And thank you, Alan, for your rigorous response and for setting an example for the rest of us. I think an explanation as to why meat-eating endures in the face of animal suffering can be most effectively explained by the phenomenon of massive cultural inertia. Meat eating has gone since the dawn of time, and there is certainly a precedent in nature itself. But cultures are not static, and change over time as a result of dynamics coming from inside the culture and those external to it. Among those influences are the animal rights movement and the commitment of people such as yourself who exemplify an alternative place to go. Perhaps the anti-smoking movement is an example. When I was young smoking was ubiquitous in the culture, But with the emergence of health warning, things slowly began to change, wherein there is social pressure, implicit and explicit, sending a message to smokers that have deterred the practice. Increased public conversation about the abuse of animals, public and political agitation, and messages valorizing alternative ways of eating may all begin to make cultural inroads and change behaviors.
At this point knowing what I know about how these creatures are kept and killed, when I pass the meat counter in a grocery store, all I see is the pain.
Great article, Joe.
Many thanks, Terri. Good to hear from you. I hope you guys are doing well. I suspect you are!
Joe: This was really food for thought.
Nice article. Another reason to refrain from meat eating in the U.S. is the refusal to participate in the capitalist exploitation and destruction of middle class farmers through unconscionable contracts which force them to take on millions of dollars in debt to maintain their relationship with the meat corps. Eventually this becomes too much for the farmer to keep up with and the corporation buys their farm for pennies on the dollar. The Biden admin has done some to help with this phenomena, but these corporations will never stop. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2BozOmjm1U Of course, I would be surprised to find that other farming industries aren't also participating in this type of exploitation, but I know it is particularly pronounced in the American meat monopolies.
Many thanks for your worthy addition to this discussion.
Joe-you make a good case for being a vegetarian.
Many thanks, Jean. As stated, it is a difficult issue to discuss in that it inevitably runs the risk of dividing people, But for those who are ethically minded, I think it is something that must be thought about. And such thought can be an initial step toward change. My best to you.
I strongly support your guiding principle for environment ethics. I'd like to add compassion for the suffering and travails of all living things. I am a lacto-ovo vegetarian and I feel an unease about about how about how the cows and hens were treated to feed me. I know something can be done beyond not eating dairy and eggs.
The society-wide disconnect on how we treat the living things we consume is deeply unsettling. You mentioned the NYT's article on hog farming. Why can't we connect with the suffering we cause the animals we farm for our dinner tables? What does our tolerance for the cruelty we inflict on farm animals tell us about our social norms? It is but a few small steps to ignoring the suffering of the income or food insecure. Opening our hearts to suffering of farm animals might open us to suffering of others and the duty of care we can extend beyond our loved ones. Compassionate care for all living things is my inclination and recommendation.
Very well said. I think that widening the circle of compassion is a vital and inspiring aspiration, and I believe is possible for us. We can always do better and speaking for myself, I have pledged to become more diligent in seeking out those conditions in which animals are raised for eggs and dairy to ensure that they are humane ones.