If the objective is victory at all costs, then by all means continue to vilify Hamas and plan for its defeat. If the objective is peace, then America, Israel, and the Palestinian people must deal with the Palestinian right of return. We all need to put aside whataboutism and keep our eye on peace if that is what we really want.
If you look back at the history of Palestine, it has been a pawn in the Ottoman empire, the British empire, and the new state of Israel starting in 1948. The PLO was corrupt, the Palestine Authority is toothless, Fatah was useless, and the various peace deals over the years did not include recognizing the Palestinians' right to return to their homes and homeland. The Palestinians in Gaza voted for Hamas in desperation in 2006. I think we need to ask ourselves why they were that desperate. Yes, Hamas is reprehensible. But they are in power for a reason. Desperate people make desperate decisions. That's not a double standard, that's human psychology.
Peace will come when Article 13(2) is honored and the Palestinians have the right to return. It's not a double standard; it's a simple fact. Why do you refuse to discuss it?
Joe, you wrote: “This December 10th marks the 75th anniversary of the proclamation of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.”
Please look at Article 13 which states: (1) Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state.
---According to Wikipedia: “Israel enforces restrictions on the freedom of movement of Palestinians in the West Bank by employing a system of permanent, temporary and random manned checkpoints, the West Bank Barrier and by forbidding the usage of roads by Palestinians.”
Article 13 also states: (2) Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and return to his country.
--- Also according to Wikipedia: “Palestinians refer to it as the Nakba, or ‘catastrophe.’ An estimated 700,000 Palestinians, a majority of the prewar population, fled or were expelled from what is now Israel in the months before and during the war, in which Jewish fighters fended off an attack by several Arab states.” They were not allowed then and are not allowed now to return to their homes in what is now called Israel.
The right to return is central to the Palestinian question. There will be no peace until this basic human right and other essential freedoms are addressed.
Thanks Joe and nicely put. The Chronicle of Higher Education had a great article today from two professors from the University of Arizona. In it, they point out that the rush to supposedly increase the "marketplace of ideas" through unfettered free speech actually diminishes the role of the university to challenge and contest ideas. They argue that "academic freedom, as distinct from free speech, entails intellectual responsibilities. Far from a license to voice just any opinion, it protects the processes by which scholars distinguish what is warranted, credible, and true from what is not." While campuses should be places of free speech and student dialogue, academics have a responsibility to uphold the "battle-tested" process of research and analysis to test which opinions hold more truth.
I believe that what we're experiencing within Ethical Societies (and within many progressive organizations) is the same thing; the idea that anyone can have any opinion which is equally "true." That waters down ethics to pure personal expressions and suggests that ethical ideas should not be open to philosophical rigor. I personally resist such a move.
My question is about the difference between being anti-Israel and being antisemitic. My guess, and my hope, is that college students' sympathies with Palestinain civilians is genuine, well-placed and not mainly antisemitism. I imagine, as you do, that they are unaware of much of the history and the fact that, again as you point out, Israel has long received a disproportionate share of the world's opprobrium. As always, I am far for more fearful of brutish antisemitism on the right than I am of misguided college students expressing sympathy for the oppressed in Palestine.
During the 1960s, I too participated in civil rights demonstrations and anti-war marches and activities. We were a bit naive but our center of ethics was based on 1) discrimination is wrong and legal obstacles to equal treatment under the law must be changed, and 2) the government is lying about Vietnam - including the domino theory. We did not scapegoat minorities to further our goals. And we felt free to criticize groups on the left and right when they done wrong. I too am saddened that the left has adopted toxic tactics that I attributed in right-wing, ultra conservative Republicans. Thanks for this thoughtful and necessary post.
Here is something I just picked up from an Exempt Organizations specialty tax newsletter. “Some of the most visible left-wing fundraising organizations in America have been funding pro-Hamas groups and ‘sponsoring’ others as millions of dollars flow into the coffers of antisemitic organizations. Organizations connected to George Soros’s foundations, as well as the group ActBlue, which is the major fundraising arm of the Democratic Party, are among the primary donors to and sponsors of antisemitic organizations like the Adalah Justice Project, Palestine Legal, The Arab Resource and Organizing Center, and The Catalyst Project. ‘The disturbing reality is that Hamas’s allies in the U.S. have a significant foothold in the non-profit sector,’ Ryan Mauro, a national security analyst at the Capital Research Center, told the Daily Caller News Foundation. ‘Major left-wing organizations are funding Hamas’s sympathizers and those who indirectly help Hamas by waging a political war against Israel.’”
IMO. This generation, like others do, manifest in the consciousness, the undercurrents or unconscious passions of their parents. You briefly mention the social media factor but I believe it’s playing a bigger role than the influence of University culture. The influence of classroom learning wanes in comparison to the hours and hours of mindless scrolling on tik tok that is essentially a constant stream of confirmation bias.
If the objective is victory at all costs, then by all means continue to vilify Hamas and plan for its defeat. If the objective is peace, then America, Israel, and the Palestinian people must deal with the Palestinian right of return. We all need to put aside whataboutism and keep our eye on peace if that is what we really want.
If you look back at the history of Palestine, it has been a pawn in the Ottoman empire, the British empire, and the new state of Israel starting in 1948. The PLO was corrupt, the Palestine Authority is toothless, Fatah was useless, and the various peace deals over the years did not include recognizing the Palestinians' right to return to their homes and homeland. The Palestinians in Gaza voted for Hamas in desperation in 2006. I think we need to ask ourselves why they were that desperate. Yes, Hamas is reprehensible. But they are in power for a reason. Desperate people make desperate decisions. That's not a double standard, that's human psychology.
Peace will come when Article 13(2) is honored and the Palestinians have the right to return. It's not a double standard; it's a simple fact. Why do you refuse to discuss it?
Joe, you wrote: “This December 10th marks the 75th anniversary of the proclamation of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.”
Please look at Article 13 which states: (1) Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state.
---According to Wikipedia: “Israel enforces restrictions on the freedom of movement of Palestinians in the West Bank by employing a system of permanent, temporary and random manned checkpoints, the West Bank Barrier and by forbidding the usage of roads by Palestinians.”
Article 13 also states: (2) Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and return to his country.
--- Also according to Wikipedia: “Palestinians refer to it as the Nakba, or ‘catastrophe.’ An estimated 700,000 Palestinians, a majority of the prewar population, fled or were expelled from what is now Israel in the months before and during the war, in which Jewish fighters fended off an attack by several Arab states.” They were not allowed then and are not allowed now to return to their homes in what is now called Israel.
The right to return is central to the Palestinian question. There will be no peace until this basic human right and other essential freedoms are addressed.
You make a great case for the need for universalism on college campuses which is not evident in anti-Israel protests.
Thanks Joe and nicely put. The Chronicle of Higher Education had a great article today from two professors from the University of Arizona. In it, they point out that the rush to supposedly increase the "marketplace of ideas" through unfettered free speech actually diminishes the role of the university to challenge and contest ideas. They argue that "academic freedom, as distinct from free speech, entails intellectual responsibilities. Far from a license to voice just any opinion, it protects the processes by which scholars distinguish what is warranted, credible, and true from what is not." While campuses should be places of free speech and student dialogue, academics have a responsibility to uphold the "battle-tested" process of research and analysis to test which opinions hold more truth.
I believe that what we're experiencing within Ethical Societies (and within many progressive organizations) is the same thing; the idea that anyone can have any opinion which is equally "true." That waters down ethics to pure personal expressions and suggests that ethical ideas should not be open to philosophical rigor. I personally resist such a move.
My question is about the difference between being anti-Israel and being antisemitic. My guess, and my hope, is that college students' sympathies with Palestinain civilians is genuine, well-placed and not mainly antisemitism. I imagine, as you do, that they are unaware of much of the history and the fact that, again as you point out, Israel has long received a disproportionate share of the world's opprobrium. As always, I am far for more fearful of brutish antisemitism on the right than I am of misguided college students expressing sympathy for the oppressed in Palestine.
During the 1960s, I too participated in civil rights demonstrations and anti-war marches and activities. We were a bit naive but our center of ethics was based on 1) discrimination is wrong and legal obstacles to equal treatment under the law must be changed, and 2) the government is lying about Vietnam - including the domino theory. We did not scapegoat minorities to further our goals. And we felt free to criticize groups on the left and right when they done wrong. I too am saddened that the left has adopted toxic tactics that I attributed in right-wing, ultra conservative Republicans. Thanks for this thoughtful and necessary post.
Here is something I just picked up from an Exempt Organizations specialty tax newsletter. “Some of the most visible left-wing fundraising organizations in America have been funding pro-Hamas groups and ‘sponsoring’ others as millions of dollars flow into the coffers of antisemitic organizations. Organizations connected to George Soros’s foundations, as well as the group ActBlue, which is the major fundraising arm of the Democratic Party, are among the primary donors to and sponsors of antisemitic organizations like the Adalah Justice Project, Palestine Legal, The Arab Resource and Organizing Center, and The Catalyst Project. ‘The disturbing reality is that Hamas’s allies in the U.S. have a significant foothold in the non-profit sector,’ Ryan Mauro, a national security analyst at the Capital Research Center, told the Daily Caller News Foundation. ‘Major left-wing organizations are funding Hamas’s sympathizers and those who indirectly help Hamas by waging a political war against Israel.’”
You are so right on.
IMO. This generation, like others do, manifest in the consciousness, the undercurrents or unconscious passions of their parents. You briefly mention the social media factor but I believe it’s playing a bigger role than the influence of University culture. The influence of classroom learning wanes in comparison to the hours and hours of mindless scrolling on tik tok that is essentially a constant stream of confirmation bias.